Tuesday, December 2. 2008
Disowning porn
Interesting post re Adult sites on Ning, a sort of Yahoo Groups for SocNets:
Whats interesting is that Ning feel that the economics no longer stack up. Or were they doing it on ethical grounds?
It would also be interesting to know what % of their service is impacted - one of the other interesting trends is that its less and less of the traffic, so less important.
One of the big problems they face in these days of enthusiastic amateur user (de)generated content (like Youporn) is that to titillate they have to be more extreme, and no one wants to host that. Secondly, no one wants to advertise against it.
Look like porn can't survive without subscription, but Youporn et al are dropping that market. Seems like porn is not immune to the travails of the media overall. It will be interesting to see what arises next (as it were) in the porn industry.
Update - fascinating comment from one of the sites impacted in the comments section.
As of January 1, 2009, we’ll no longer support adult social networks on the Ning Platform.
We’re not discontinuing the Red Light District because we no longer believe in the freedom to create your own social network for anything as long as it’s legal. We do. Practically though, supporting adult networks no longer makes sense. Here is what we’ve seen in practice to date with respect to adult social networks on Ning:
- Adult social networks don’t pull their own weight. Specifically, they require other social networks to work harder because they don’t generate enough advertising or premium service revenue to cover their costs. Plus, our ad partners aren’t big fans of the adult networks and therefore require us to identify adult networks or risk our healthy advertising revenue. We don’t want to be in the policing business and, unchecked, that’s where this is heading.
- By having legal adult social networks on Ning, we’ve seen a rise in volume of illegal adult social networks. We are always going to do the right thing as it pertains to social networks that are illegal or violate our Terms of Service. That’s non-negotiable. However, the time involved in reporting and assisting the authorities on illegal adult social networks is simply too time and cost intensive for the benefits derived by having adult social networks on Ning.
- Adult social networks on Ning receive a disproportionate number of DMCA take down notices creating additional work for our team. We respect intellectual property rights and comply with the DMCA. Compared to our other social networks on the Ning Platform, the additional work created by adult networks alleged to have violated the copyrights of others is enough for us to discontinue adult networks in favor of investing time and energy in growing the Ning Platform from here.
Whats interesting is that Ning feel that the economics no longer stack up. Or were they doing it on ethical grounds?
It would also be interesting to know what % of their service is impacted - one of the other interesting trends is that its less and less of the traffic, so less important.
One of the big problems they face in these days of enthusiastic amateur user (de)generated content (like Youporn) is that to titillate they have to be more extreme, and no one wants to host that. Secondly, no one wants to advertise against it.
Look like porn can't survive without subscription, but Youporn et al are dropping that market. Seems like porn is not immune to the travails of the media overall. It will be interesting to see what arises next (as it were) in the porn industry.
Update - fascinating comment from one of the sites impacted in the comments section.
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I have a site on Ning that deals with adult lifestyles and education and I have paid Ning each month to host my site from the moment that I created my site. They did not stop from taking my money this month.
They have all of my content and data and block us from getting our code. Were talking about thousands of members submitted photos, videos, blogs, forums, member pages and comments and so much more. We have worked long hours to bring out honest truth about different types of adult lifestyles. We were there for ning when they started and now we are getting a bad rap. Its the adult web sites on Ning that kept it going now that they raised Million of dollars they are trying to clean up their act.
Gina from Ning give us a wonderful Xmas present ... We have no site any more and no where to go. Not all adults site on Ning are porn but were all going ... what will we start burning books again?
This is what Ning sent back to me when I asked about my content. You tell me if you think this is fair 30 days to find a new home and will they give us back our content and how will we be able to integrate it on another sever? Ning was not free we paid to put our sites there and they welcome all of our adults sites with open arms and now what we got was 30 days and get out without any of our content.. Is this fair????
E-mail back from Ning
December 3, 2008
[The Ning Team - 12/02/2008 06:24 PM]
Regardless of the services you have purchased, if your network is of an adult
nature it will be removed on January 1st, 2009. If you'd like to keep your
network running on the Ning Platform, you're welcome to make changes so your
network no longer falls into our definition of adult network. This includes
removing any and all adult content from your network.
An adult network includes, but isn't limited to:
Pornography
Depictions of sexual acts
Sexually explicit or obscene themes
These changes take effect on January 1, 2009, so you'll need to make these
changes before then.
They have all of my content and data and block us from getting our code. Were talking about thousands of members submitted photos, videos, blogs, forums, member pages and comments and so much more. We have worked long hours to bring out honest truth about different types of adult lifestyles. We were there for ning when they started and now we are getting a bad rap. Its the adult web sites on Ning that kept it going now that they raised Million of dollars they are trying to clean up their act.
Gina from Ning give us a wonderful Xmas present ... We have no site any more and no where to go. Not all adults site on Ning are porn but were all going ... what will we start burning books again?
This is what Ning sent back to me when I asked about my content. You tell me if you think this is fair 30 days to find a new home and will they give us back our content and how will we be able to integrate it on another sever? Ning was not free we paid to put our sites there and they welcome all of our adults sites with open arms and now what we got was 30 days and get out without any of our content.. Is this fair????
E-mail back from Ning
December 3, 2008
[The Ning Team - 12/02/2008 06:24 PM]
Regardless of the services you have purchased, if your network is of an adult
nature it will be removed on January 1st, 2009. If you'd like to keep your
network running on the Ning Platform, you're welcome to make changes so your
network no longer falls into our definition of adult network. This includes
removing any and all adult content from your network.
An adult network includes, but isn't limited to:
Pornography
Depictions of sexual acts
Sexually explicit or obscene themes
These changes take effect on January 1, 2009, so you'll need to make these
changes before then.
It probably isn't fair, but it is the way of the world - welcome to The Cloud, when you don't control your own destiny
Our free consultancy advice re Ning is always host your own site if its of any economic importance.
See this which we wrore re Ning in 2007 - prophetic hey
)
http://broadstuff.com/archives/171-On-the-Ning-Nang-Nong.....html
Our free consultancy advice re Ning is always host your own site if its of any economic importance.
See this which we wrore re Ning in 2007 - prophetic hey
)http://broadstuff.com/archives/171-On-the-Ning-Nang-Nong.....html
In our opinion, Ning can change its policies any time it wants. The manner of breaking promises without first providing fair and reasonable alternatives or solutions is the issue.
When customers have relied on your policy for months or a year and then you switch, it is simply bad business to cut them off with less than four weeks notice and no means to move.
Why has Ning failed to provide a simple migration tool BEFORE it raised the issue of deleting adult networks? It is not only possible, but we've previously created a tool to do this, and then Ning shut down their public API, killing any such tools.
To prove our point, yesterday we created a simple photo migration tool in a matter of a couple hours. To date, Ning is still claiming that they are unable to do the same, even though it is their own platform.
Here is a link to the migration tool and a how-to video.
http://www.widgetlaboratory.com/members/profile/1/blog-view/lab-ninja---backup-and-migrate-your-ning-photos_64.html
WidgetLaboratory is very familiar with Ning's method of "dealing" with customer relationships by way of obfuscation and finger-pointing. The truth behind the words is often hard to find.
Making large profits is fine (great even). But, not at the expense of those who have supported your growth. Given the origin of their name, it's sad to see that they've lost their moral compass and common sense somewhere along the way...
Spencer Forman - CEO WidgetLaboratory
When customers have relied on your policy for months or a year and then you switch, it is simply bad business to cut them off with less than four weeks notice and no means to move.
Why has Ning failed to provide a simple migration tool BEFORE it raised the issue of deleting adult networks? It is not only possible, but we've previously created a tool to do this, and then Ning shut down their public API, killing any such tools.
To prove our point, yesterday we created a simple photo migration tool in a matter of a couple hours. To date, Ning is still claiming that they are unable to do the same, even though it is their own platform.
Here is a link to the migration tool and a how-to video.
http://www.widgetlaboratory.com/members/profile/1/blog-view/lab-ninja---backup-and-migrate-your-ning-photos_64.html
WidgetLaboratory is very familiar with Ning's method of "dealing" with customer relationships by way of obfuscation and finger-pointing. The truth behind the words is often hard to find.
Making large profits is fine (great even). But, not at the expense of those who have supported your growth. Given the origin of their name, it's sad to see that they've lost their moral compass and common sense somewhere along the way...
Spencer Forman - CEO WidgetLaboratory
Gina Bianchini,
What you have done is simply bad business. Very bad business! I see class action Lawyers all over you in your future.
Not all Adult sites are bad some are community and or educational based and do much more good than harm. Gina, you should know that I pay you - yes I'm a paying ning client, but I'm being treated like the freeloaders porn sites using ning!
Gina, why are you selling out? Yes I agree, please do remove all the dirty xxx "pure" porn crap that are using your free services, but leave the well intentioned Adult sites alone, especially the ones that are paying you and not breaking laws. I never received a complaint about copyright or anything else.
How are you taking down the sites? At the very least have a human (and not a right wing fanatic) review the sites before pulling them. This is not the job for a scripted robot. (as your tech support informed me). You know, your tech support was useless and robotic. No effort was made to reach my concern... "that's the policy"... brainless customer support. And they refused to review my site and okay it. They said "if it's porn it's gone" You should look into that Gina.
Also one last question... are you planing to reimburse your paying clients when you kick them off your network? Money doesn't grow on trees, but class action law suites are always a possibility... I've already received my first email from the acting lawyer.
You should reconsider, but if you don't - good luck to you, it will cost you tens of millions...
What you have done is simply bad business. Very bad business! I see class action Lawyers all over you in your future.
Not all Adult sites are bad some are community and or educational based and do much more good than harm. Gina, you should know that I pay you - yes I'm a paying ning client, but I'm being treated like the freeloaders porn sites using ning!
Gina, why are you selling out? Yes I agree, please do remove all the dirty xxx "pure" porn crap that are using your free services, but leave the well intentioned Adult sites alone, especially the ones that are paying you and not breaking laws. I never received a complaint about copyright or anything else.
How are you taking down the sites? At the very least have a human (and not a right wing fanatic) review the sites before pulling them. This is not the job for a scripted robot. (as your tech support informed me). You know, your tech support was useless and robotic. No effort was made to reach my concern... "that's the policy"... brainless customer support. And they refused to review my site and okay it. They said "if it's porn it's gone" You should look into that Gina.
Also one last question... are you planing to reimburse your paying clients when you kick them off your network? Money doesn't grow on trees, but class action law suites are always a possibility... I've already received my first email from the acting lawyer.
You should reconsider, but if you don't - good luck to you, it will cost you tens of millions...
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And hopefully a prosperous one...
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